Joining me for this insightful conversation about how acupuncture can support your fertility journey is Mary Wong, Canada’s leading Acupuncturist and Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) practitioner with over 30 years of experience, and the bestselling author of Pathways to Pregnancy
Combining Western and Eastern medicine in her approach, Mary is widely recognized as one of Canada’s preeminent Acupuncturists and wellness experts. With a celebrated career of administering over 1.5 million acupuncture needles across 75,000 patient sessions, she specializes in hormonal health and fertility. Mary is the visionary founder and CEO of ALIVE Holistic Health, a leading wellness clinic in North America
Her sought-after expertise has been featured on CityTV’s Cityline and CTV’s Your Morning, as well as “Talks At Google”, where she shared the stage with luminaries such as Barack Obama and Malcolm Gladwell.
In addition, Mary co-created My Fertology, an inspiring podcast that supports the fertile spirit from preconception to menopause.
Mary is also a former infertility patient herself who had her baby through IVF, and I sat down with her to talk all about her story, the amazing benefits of acupuncture for fertility, what to look for in a fertility acupuncturist, and how including acupuncture in a holistic approach to fertility can make a positive impact.
Dr. Aimee: I am so delighted to have my dear friend Mary Wong on the show today. Hi, Mary.
Mary Wong: Hi. I’m so glad to be here.
Dr. Aimee: We’re going to talk about how acupuncture and Eastern medicine can help you thrive on your pathway to pregnancy.
Welcome, Mary.
Mary Wong: Thank you so much for having me. I’m super excited to be here.
Dr. Aimee: Thank you for sending your book to me. I had so much fun reading it. The personal stories were so inspiring. I see patients all day long, and they inspire me to do better and be better for patients who are just working so hard to reach their goals. Can you tell us about the book and what inspired you to write it?
Mary Wong: You actually hit the nail on the head. I wrote this book because I was inspired by my patients. When I was going through fertility challenges, guess what? It’s typically a very private journey. Even when you walk into a fertility clinic and there are a gazillion people in the waiting room, you still feel super lonely and people don’t really talk. I wanted to create this book to help people’s pathway to pregnancy no matter where they’re at, no matter what kind of symptoms or diagnoses they have, because you need that inspiration.
I chose people that inspired me. There are 15 stories, one of which is my own. What I’ve found is that no matter what, I see people where they’re at. I can see them when they’re in the depths of despair, but they transform their lives and their health, and they have the family of their dreams one way or another. It may not have been what they expected, but they got there. They were my inspiration. I thought gosh, if I get inspired by that, I need to share people’s stories so that they can have their inspiration, so that you who are watching and listening can get inspired and have hope and inspiration so that you can persevere the journey.
One thing I say also in the book is that we cannot be in the way of ourselves and we cannot let other physicians or other holistic healthcare practitioners be our limitations to our lives and our wellbeing. Sometimes miracles do happen and we are surprised. Don’t let anybody stand in the way of your journey.
Dr. Aimee: Let’s talk about your background a bit, because you’re bringing together a couple of ways of approaching medicine, Western and Eastern. Can you tell us about Traditional Chinese Medicine for those who are not familiar with it?
Mary Wong: TCM stands for Traditional Chinese Medicine. In modern days, they may even say East Asian Medicine. In fact, all over the world now they utilize this modality. It stems from Taoist roots. If you know anything about Taoism, it’s all about living in harmony with nature and your environment. It comes from over 3,000 years old, so it’s a really wise old medicine. By bringing it to modern day, we incorporate lifestyle and diet and exercise.
Traditional exercises would include tai chi and qi gong, which are what I call moving meditations, which is very helpful for many of the people that are Type A personalities who have difficulty sitting down for more than two minutes at a time. All of that, you can do on your own. When it comes to acupuncture, Chinese herbal medicine, gua sha, those modalities require a TCM physician. We are there to help you get through your life.
By the way, I know that this is specifically speaking to fertility, but really Chinese medicine is about health and longevity and proactive healthcare. Even when you do fertility treatment, we take care of all of you in mind, body, and spirit.
Dr. Aimee: I feel like you are spot on with what you’re sharing. While we’re thinking about improving my patients’ fertility, as they’re going through acupuncture treatments, they feel less nauseous, they feel less fatigued, they recover better after their egg retrieval. Once they’re pregnant, they also feel better, less depression. I always tell people to just try it once and see. Make sure you’re working with someone that you feel really comfortable with and just give it a try.
Mary Wong: I love that. It’s so true. Every personality is different. I think you’re a total rockstar and you are a different breed. A lot of physicians may not have the time that you put into it, the compassion and the empathy, and your ability to listen. It’s lacking, unfortunately. The time is so constrained that even the doctors with the best intentions, there’s a lack of time to really give that care.
When you see someone and lie down for a while for acupuncture with a person that really listens, it provides great value. Part of our way of working with patients is through asking questions, very in depth, so what it looks like is you literally might be sitting down for an hour for a first consult to get the whole mental, emotional, physical, even social background, the lay of the land, beyond your physicality and health history.
Also, we look at it differently in terms of this 3,000 year old art. It’s not modern medicine where we have these diagnostic technological tools. We have to be able to look into the body slightly differently. When acupuncturists put acupuncture needles in on specific sites, it can trigger the brain to release endorphins. What we know is that endorphins provide this lovely relaxation response. By doing so, we are also increasing blood flow to the pelvic cavity, your ovaries, your uterus, your fallopian tubes. For the male, to the testes. We want to make everything and all the cells, juicier and better.
Dr. Aimee: How did your background in TCM play a role in how you approached IVF and your own fertility journey?
Mary Wong: I was born in the Netherlands, grew up in Canada, and I had the full intention of going to med school. I wanted to be a psychiatrist. Second year at university, my grandmother fell ill. She was 86 at the time. The doctors at the hospital gave her two weeks to live, so we brought her home.
My brother was the one who said, “Hey, we’re Chinese, maybe we should try Chinese medicine.” We then did that. I was given the task, I drove her to Chinatown every single week. Within three months, she made a spontaneous recovery. She lived another eight years.
In that Summer, I thought why did she slip through the cracks of this kind of medicine? I need to be a person that will help provide access, will help educate, so that people will have an informed choice to make the decision that they need for their health and for their vitality. There’s no turning back.
How I approached IVF for my own journey was that I had no clue that I was going to have fertility challenges. I didn’t find out I had an infertility diagnosis until I had an HSG, which is an x-ray of the reproductive area, and they found that I had not only blocked fallopian tubes, but fluid filled blocked fallopian tubes, and that was irreversible. What I’ve had to realize was, holy cow, I am not immune to life’s challenges. That was tough because in the natural field, of course, my thinking was: I’m going to do it all natural, especially when both of my grandmothers were 46 and having babies naturally. I thought it was going to be a slam dunk, until it wasn’t.
I had to grudgingly surrender to IVF, but I very quickly switched my tune and thought I am so grateful, this is what IVF is for, I get to be my own science experiment and I can report back to my patients what to do.
Dr. Aimee: How have you seen acupuncture support fertility treatments in fertility patients?
Mary Wong: It’s a great question. Here’s the thing. You can support patients on their journey no matter where they’re at. Whether they’re thinking about it for one day in the future or in the crux of it, in their deep IVF cycles.
What we’ve seen through different kinds of research is that it has a place whether you’re trying to create the little follicles to become embryos, to embryo transfers, to helping the uterine lining be thick and juicy.
Dr. Aimee: Do you think that patients actually need their physician’s permission to do acupuncture?
Mary Wong: What I always encourage is to have transparency. What I do know is this. About 50% of people who do IVF will seek out people who do acupuncture. Whether they tell their physicians or not is a whole different story. What I know in Canada is most physicians don’t have that on their radar, and they forget.
I think it’s important for people to recognize that it’s okay to tell them. If you’re worried, maybe you can suss them out and just actually begin with a question like, “What do you think of acupuncture? Should I try it?” Then you’ll know. Then you might want to do it on your own if that’s what you choose to do.
Dr. Aimee: For all the fertility specialists, whether you’re a doctor, a nurse, or another acupuncturist, what do you wish they knew about acupuncture and other services if they’re not yet encouraging patients to explore these offerings during fertility treatment?
Mary Wong: If you are a doctor, a practitioner, a nurse, or anyone that comes into contact with patients doing fertility treatment at fertility clinics, you need to know that patients are doing this. I think it probably serves you and your clients better by actually having some knowledge and perhaps redirecting patients because who does the acupuncture also matters.
There’s a lot of people that will hang a sign on the door and say, “I’m a fertility acupuncturist,” and they may not necessarily have the right training. What you need to do is say you need to find a licensed acupuncturist in the US, a registered traditional acupuncturist in Canada, where the people will have three years plus of training.
Dr. Aimee: There are doctors that are just so into the studies and cold hard facts. What data can you share about how it improves outcomes for anybody who might be looking for those kinds of things?
Mary Wong: You had a guest, Dr. Lee Hullender Rubin, on the show a while back, and she really spoke to this quite articulately. What we know is the research is variable, but it is trending toward yes, acupuncture can make a difference. The reason why I say this is that when we compare acupuncture to a control group that is not doing anything, just the regular IVF care, versus someone that does acupuncture with IVF care, we are seeing results.
We are seeing more statistically significant results where acupuncture can increase live birth rates, up to 20% or more.
Dr. Aimee: What I say is if you make your acupuncture appointment and then you look forward to it, you know it’s helping you because you know it’s decreasing your anxiety, it’s improving your quality of life, it’s helping you sleep perhaps, and it’s making you feel more Zen as you’re going through something that can be quite gnarly a lot of time. That to me is the definition of it working, if you’re feeling listened to and cared for in a different way. It may not help with live birth rates, it may not increase egg quality, but it could help one person feel more supported, and I think that has great value.
Mary Wong: If we are going through IVF and we are so anxious and we can barely function, then how can we keep going? You do one and you’re done, or you have a miscarriage and you’re done, it’s like, “I give up.” Versus if you are in this relationship with this practitioner that really listens to you and acknowledges your pain, is there for you, holds your hand and guides you through this, acupuncture itself does increase endorphin release, which stimulates that relaxation response. It helps with sleep, it helps with relaxation, it increases blood flow to your ovaries, uterus, and testes.
All of those things can only be beneficial. You’re 100% right. Does that mean it’s going to totally help your egg health? Maybe, maybe not. We don’t know. But there are so many benefits. We can see it in terms of endorphin release, but we also see through doppler ultrasounds that the blood volume does increase and blood sugar gets moderated.
I’ll tell you, in-clinic, I see this all the time. When people have irregular menstrual cycles, especially if they have something like PCOS, we can help to induce ovulation and we can help to regulate menstruation. If you’re trying to conceive naturally, that’s a game-changer because if you don’t know when you’re ovulating or if you don’t know that you’re ovulating at all, that’s not going to help you.
Dr. Aimee: What would you say to someone who is afraid of needles and still wants to consider acupuncture?
Mary Wong: That can be a common one. The number one thing I say is that they are as thin as your hair, they’re flexible, and I’ve never seen one break off because they are so flexible. With a skilled practitioner, it’s really a nonevent.
Some people come in with this fear that’s out of this world, and then I put the needle in and they don’t even know it. I’m like, “The needle is in,” and they go, “Oh!” It’s quite anticlimactic, even for those who are saying, “Mary, I’m so stressed, I don’t think I can relax.” Literally, the needles are in, we put on the calm music, we dim the lights, and I put a little eye pillow on their eyes, warm little things on their hands and feet, and they’re like, passed out.
So, nothing to fear. Certainly, in our practice when we meet the person initially, we take time to get the history, and that’s part of the consultation, and it can take up to an hour before we even consider needling. Creating that trust, that rapport, and that relationship helps you relax to even get to needle insertion.
Dr. Aimee: What other bits of valuable advice do you have on ways to make things easier for anyone who is going through a fertility journey?
Mary Wong: We all want to be in control. When you’re dealing with your career and work, you work harder and you can get your results. But sometimes doing more and treating your fertility journey like a job like, that, by doing more, may not necessarily get you the result that you want. When people ask me, “Mary, what more can I do,” I often say, maybe there’s something that you need to actually let go of because it sounds like you’re doing everything possible.
It’s beyond just the physical journey. I love that you asked this question because people coming in for acupuncture can also look at it like, strictly, needle here and is there a magic point that will get me pregnant and have that baby. No, it doesn’t work quite like that.
We need to look beyond the acupuncture and look into your life. How is your relationship with your husband? How is your relationship with your doctor? How are you at work? Are you stressed? Looking at all aspects of your life and really treating you as a whole human in mind, body, and spirit so that your load will be lighter and you’re more inspired and hopeful.
Dr. Aimee: If someone wants to find your podcast, book, or your work, what do you do and how can they find you?
Mary Wong: You can go on MyFertology.com. You can find me on Instagram @MeetMaryWong.
My book is sold anywhere and everywhere. If you are too busy to physically read the hard copy, it is on Audible, and I narrated it, so you get to hear my lovely voice.
Dr. Aimee: Is there anything else that you want to share with our audience today?
Mary Wong: Gosh, I’ve said it a lot, but I guess to wrap it up, if you’re going to choose acupuncture, find the right health professional and make sure that they are qualified. Even better if they know about reproductive endocrinology. People are ABORM members, you can find fertility acupuncturists through that website. They are international and I belong to that as well.
It’s about not looking at acupuncture as trying to help that baby in the belly. I would prefer you to look at acupuncture and the whole system of Chinese medicine as part of your life, so that no matter what happens, you can fall back and feel good about going there.
Honor your journey. Set boundaries. Know your limitations.
Dr. Aimee: Mary, thank you so much for sharing so much about your own personal story and for sharing so many great stories in your book as well. I really enjoyed reading them, especially the story that you shared about your own fertility journey. I know people who pick up your book or listen to it are going to learn a lot that can hopefully help them as they embrace their pathway to pregnancy.
Mary Wong: Thank you so much for having me.
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