In this episode of The Egg Whisperer Show, Dr. Aimee Eyvazzadeh welcomes Dr. Lee Hullender Rubin, a leading expert in acupuncture with a focus on fertility. Dr. Lee discusses her recent publication on the effects of acupuncture on IVF related anxiety and shares her extensive experience in the field. Listeners will learn about the mechanisms of acupuncture, its benefits for fertility treatment, and the ways it can support IVF, IUI, endometriosis, PCOS, and other reproductive health issues.
The discussion also highlights Dr. Lee’s personal journey into acupuncture and her commitment to integrating both Western and Eastern medicine to enhance patient outcomes. The episode wraps up with practical advice for implementing acupuncture in fertility treatments and extends an invitation for further collaboration between healthcare providers and acupuncturists.
In addition to her work as a clinician, Dr. Lee is also an accomplished teacher and researcher of acupuncture and integrative East Asian Medicine, having authored more than 30 publications during her career. She recently founded Rosefinch Academy, a continuing education hub for acupuncturists to learn how acupuncture and integrative medicine can support fertility.
Full Transcript:
Dr. Lee Hullender Rubin is an award-winning doctor of acupuncture and the founder of Rosefinch Health, and she’s joining me today on the show to talk about the benefits of acupuncture for fertility.
Dr. Lee blends compassionate care with over two decades of clinical experience, specializing in fertility, IVF support, pelvic and vulva vaginal pain, and cancer related support. She is also an accomplished teacher and researcher of acupuncture and integrative East Asian medicine, having authored more than 30 publications during her career. She recently founded Rosefinch Academy, a continuing education hub for acupuncturists to learn how acupuncture and integrative medicine can support fertility.
I’m so delighted to have her join me today to talk about all things acupuncture, and her recent publication in Reproductive Biomedicine Online on the effect of acupuncture on IVF related anxiety. If you’re curious about the many amazing benefits of acupuncture for fertility patients, you’ll get so much out of this incredibly informative conversation!
Dr. Aimee: I am so excited to talk about acupuncture and IVF outcomes with Dr. Lee Hullender Rubin. We’re going to talk about all things acupuncture and her recent publication on the effect of acupuncture on IVF related anxiety. Welcome, Dr. Lee.
Dr. Lee Hullender Rubin: Thank you so much for having me.
Dr. Aimee: For people unfamiliar with acupuncture, can you give us an overview of what it is and how it works?
Dr. Lee: Acupuncture is one treatment within the whole system of Chinese medicine. Other treatments that can fall into this are gua sha, which is having a social media moment right now, cupping, which you may have seen on athletes, Chinese herbal therapies.
Acupuncture itself is a treatment where we insert sterile solid needles into the tissues underneath the skin, and we’re trying to promote self-healing. We place these needles in specific locations based on Chinese medicine theory as well as Western medicine goals, like we want to improve the frequency of ovulation or help blood flow to the ovaries, that sort of thing.
I want to just say that Chinese medicine uses an explanatory model that is based on the concepts of Yin and Yang, Qi and blood. While those are ways for us to understand how well the body is in balance or healthy, or how sick or unbalanced it might be, we also are considering where is someone in their menstrual cycle, what kinds of hormone levels they have, what kind of cycle are they maybe doing with you as a fertility doctor.
So, when we do acupuncture, you might notice here, this is a really flexible needle. It’s very small, it’s 0.2 millimeters. We put multiple needles into the body at one time. We let someone relax for about 30 minutes after we do so. When we do this, we’re trying to promote a few things to happen. We see multiple changes that are measurable by bloodwork, neuroimaging, ultrasound, so you can see there is a complex response from this deceptively simple looking intervention.
Dr. Aimee: I could barely see the needle. It’s probably less painful than plucking an eyebrow.
Dr. Lee: Yes.
Dr. Aimee: You said something about a social media moment and you used a term that I wasn’t familiar with. What is that?
Dr. Lee: Gua sha is a type of treatment where you use a flat tool to scrape the skin, but you use it gently. It’s one of these things that are being used to loosen muscles, help support blood flow, and it’s a really lovely therapy.
Dr. Aimee: Now that you’ve mentioned it, I’ve definitely seen people using it on social media. How does acupuncture actually help with fertility and fertility treatment?
Dr. Lee: There is some really great research that has been coming out over the last 20 years looking at mechanisms to help us understand how acupuncture might be working. One of the ways that we know for sure acupuncture is inducing a change in the body is through measuring endorphins. We see an increase of endorphins happen every time we place needles into the body, and that’s great for pain and, incidentally, also for stress.
We also see changes in blood flow. We see changes in skin temperature. We can see changes in the organization of the brain, that’s called neuroplasticity in the research. We also see this remodeling of loose connective tissue. For those that don’t know what that is, it’s this really collagen-rich tissue that surrounds everything in the body from blood vessels to muscles to glands. We don’t fully understand what loose connective tissue does, but one of the hypotheses is that it might be complementing the nervous system and it might also be complementing the endocrine system and their functions.
I’ll stop with all of those details just because we could literally spend hours going through the data on all of these and show pictures and all kinds of cool stuff. Really, we’re here to talk about fertility.
How do we know that acupuncture can help with fertility? There are really five ways. We’re talking about blood flow, specifically to organs that are responsible for eggs, or for sperm, or for gestating pregnancy. We’re talking about endorphins, neurotransmitters. We’re talking about blood sugar metabolism and insulin resistance. Those are five really clear mechanisms that we have been able to measure and see differences when we do acupuncture.
Dr. Aimee: I’d also love to hear your personal story. What drew you to the world of acupuncture and specifically treating fertility patients?
Dr. Lee: This might surprise you. When I was 17 years old, I joined the Air Force. I quickly realized this would not be my life’s path, that was just not going to be the thing. I started to go to school and focus on some area of medicine, I wasn’t sure what. When I got out, I really did get very interested in acupuncture and East Asian medicine, so I completed my graduate training in Seattle and Shanghai, China.
I really came to this specialty specifically of reproductive medicine in this class that I took on special topics of the reproductive lifespan. We had this one section on fertility, and I was just infinitely interested in it. I’m an adopted person, my parents who adopted me had a fertility issue. I imagine there is some sort of influence there. Maybe that’s what helped me be so interested in it.
I was really lucky to be mentored by a very experienced fertility acupuncturist. Ultimately, I just took the ball and ran with it. I ran an IVF acupuncture program at a fertility clinic in Seattle. I really started to wonder, like I think we’re seeing something here, I think there could be a measurable difference, but I didn’t know how to do that, and that’s what brought me back to a doctoral program. I did an NIH postdoctoral research fellowship. I’ve just continued clinical care, really looked at ways we can understand how this works. Basically, I just really like data.
Dr. Aimee: I know that you really like treating the whole person as well, while focusing on the root cause or causes of what they might be dealing with. What does that look like for someone who is doing an IVF cycle?
Dr. Lee: Fertility acupuncturists like myself, and I talk to a lot of colleagues and I train acupuncturists, we’re generally considering both Chinese medicine explanatory models of how fertility is occurring and all of the parameters on the Western side. When we’re putting together a treatment plan, we really want to be thinking about both of those things.
Yes, I want to address the root cause, but I’m also learning how well someone sleeps, or how well they digest, or what kind of foods they like, or are there reproductive toxins that they’re consistently exposed to on the daily. I’m really trying to think about all of the ways that I can help support that person who is going through treatment with you or with another clinic to have the best outcomes while also putting together that acupuncture treatment plan.
Dr. Aimee: One of the most commonly asked questions I get is what does that look like when I’m doing acupuncture during IVF? When you say you’re focusing on the eggs or ovarian stimulation, the lining or the sperm, what does that actually involve for someone who wants to work with you or another fertility acupuncturist?
Dr. Lee: I think it’s really important to clarify with patients what they’re doing in their treatments. Is this a stimulation cycle where we’re going to bank eggs or we’re going to bank embryos? Do we need to also be thinking about treating the person who is providing the sperm or their partner? Are we doing a frozen embryo transfer and focusing our treatment there? I really am thinking about several ways to make this work. I want to see people once a week, at least, but I also want to give you things that you can do at home so that you can be empowered and to extend the benefit of the therapy.
When we look at the research, what we know right now is that IVF acupuncture may help improve birth outcomes. There are some trials that have been done, there are several trials, but they all have different designs. It’s really difficult to interpret the data because it’s mixed. If you look at one style of trial where acupuncture is compared with people who are relaxing or maybe they don’t get any treatment at all, when you put all of those trials together, you see a 27-30% increase in the chance of live birth and a 43% reduction in miscarriage. That’s pretty great.
When we look at when acupuncture is compared to a sham needle or a placebo needle, we don’t see those same outcomes. I would actually say maybe there could be because there is a lot of data out there around the sham and placebo needles being a little more powerful than other placebo controls and that they might be obscuring any detectable benefit because we’re not actually comparing real acupuncture to “nothing.” Do you know what I mean?
Dr. Aimee: Absolutely.
Dr. Lee: The other thing is in my own work we’ve done several cohort studies, and these are nonrandomized. We look at people after they’ve already gone through treatment and we say, “How many treatments did you do? What happened?” What we’ve seen is roughly 9 to 12 sessions supporting an IVF cycle was associated with more live births and fewer biochemical pregnancies. Another study, smaller than mine, I had about 1,000 people in my study, a smaller study found fewer miscarriages.
I think that it’s important for us to know what we’re really looking at here. It appears that there could be some benefit. We need to better understand how to measure these things. I think also the other piece about this is that this is a very safe therapy, it’s not harming anyone, especially by a trained acupuncturist.
The other person that we’re thinking about, the person with the sperm, they need at least 75 to 90 days to see a difference, so hopefully we can start seeing them a little bit earlier. I might actually send them home with another therapy in addition to acupuncture, which is called transcutaneous electro acupuncture stimulation, or TEAS, which is basically a TENS machine on acupuncture points. There was a small study out of China a couple years ago where folks who did that every day for 30 days had an improvement in count and motility.
Dr. Aimee: Wow. How long is each session?
Dr. Lee: 30 minutes for themselves. For the sperm, they did it every day for 30 days, took a break for two days, and then repeated it again. I’ll share that study with you if you want.
Dr. Aimee: I definitely do. I see TENS units coming to people’s doors soon. Whatever we can do to make the embryos look great.
Is this approach different for someone who is doing IUI, let’s say, or is it about the same?
Dr. Lee: It will be a little bit different because when you’re doing an IUI, you’re focused on more than just retrieving eggs or maybe an embryo transfer. We’re tailoring treatment for each phase of the cycle. We’re thinking about the menses part of the cycle, we’re thinking about follicular development, robust ovulation, hopefully sperm meets egg, implantation at the appropriate time, and then supporting a potential pregnancy, so we’re doing it all within one cycle.
Dr. Aimee: How can it help people who, let’s say, have been given a diagnosis of DOR, decreased ovarian reserve, or POI, primary ovarian insufficiency?
Dr. Lee: This is a group that I really have a lot of interest in. When we look at our data from the 1,000-people cohort, the people who often fall under the DOR umbrella term, because we know that the diagnosis is a little bit challenging sometimes, people aged around 38 to 42 really do show to be associated with more live births than the other age groups. When they add the acupuncture to their IVF process, we see that they do a little bit better.
I don’t want to imply, though, that acupuncture is this panacea for everything, but I do think that there is a significant role that it can play specifically for patients in this particular category. In this case, I will also use my acupuncture, I might also add in LED light therapy and the TENS machine on points specific to them that may help them.
There was another study that looked at transcutaneous electro acupuncture stimulation in about 240 people with diminished ovarian reserve, that’s how they titled it. The people who did TEAS, this TENS machine on acupuncture points, had a significant reduction in FSH, so people who had follicle stimulating hormone, it came down. Then the AMH, the anti-mullerian hormone, came up to more normal levels, as well as the antral follicle count came up. What was also interesting is they needed less drugs, less gonadotropins, over fewer days, and they had a higher pregnancy rate. That was all compared to a mock treatment of TEAS.
It was a pretty interesting study. I would really love to see it replicated here in the United States so that we could confirm that’s exactly what we saw. I do think it’s a good enough signal, because it is safe therapy, that we could add it in to support these patients.
Dr. Aimee: Is this something that you can support a patient in, let’s say someone who can’t make it to your office, do you do telehealth visits where they can get the TEAS, get your counseling on it, and get coached along the way?
Dr. Lee: Precisely. That’s exactly what we do.
Dr. Aimee: That’s amazing. Are the same principles in place when treating endometriosis or PCOS?
Dr. Lee: We are going to alter the way we approach care based on those kinds of diagnoses because it’s different metabolic things that are happening, especially with polycystic ovarian syndrome. You’re seeing more inflammation, systemic inflammation, in both of them, but with endometriosis – I was very fortunate, by the way, to work with a UCSF endometriosis clinic when I was there – we’re really wanting to focus our treatment to address pain if there is pain, to reduce inflammation.
We’re probably not going to be able to resolve lesions or cysts with just acupuncture itself, but we are going to be able to use the whole system, like the diet approach, the lifestyle support, reduce the oxidative stress that is helping to promote the inflammation, reduce pain, and then just help the whole process, hopefully, be more receptive to the treatment and be able to continue. That’s really my goal. I don’t want you to give up because it’s too uncomfortable.
With polycystic ovarian syndrome, we have a lot more research about that. There’s a really prolific group out of Sweden, and they work a lot in China as well, and they have found lots of different outcomes when they’ve added acupuncture in both animal models and in human studies where acupuncture helped to improve ovulation rates, improve menstrual frequency, so having a regular cycle, helping to modulate some of those features that are common in polycystic ovarian syndrome, like high androgens or insulin resistance, and maybe the blood sugar is too high, so it’s helping your body to absorb the glucose appropriately through the skeletal muscles or your muscle tissue.
I’m not sure we’re going to see a big signal with respect to improving birth outcomes or getting pregnant and having a baby with just acupuncture and the short dose, but I do think that, from my own experience, when we add acupuncture alongside with treatments like metformin and ovulation induction medications, that patients appear to get pregnant quicker. We need more research on this, ultimately.
Coming back to the coping aspect of this, I do think patients are able to stay in treatment longer. If they need to go to IVF, they respond well and they can finish the treatment, get pregnant, stay pregnant, and have a healthy baby.
Dr. Aimee: I also find that in my patients who are doing acupuncture, they’re less anxious. If they’ve already come to me having done acupuncture, they just feel more informed and more educated about the process, and I think a lot of it has to do with the acupuncture they’re receiving and the fertility acupuncturist they’re seeing. I’d love for you to just share with us about the science there of how and why treatments work to help with anxiety. I think you’ve also published a study about the impacts on IVF.
Dr. Lee: Yes. We just published this paper in July at Reproductive Biomedicine Online. This was a project I did at UCSF before I moved back to Portland. Our research question was does acupuncture help with IVF related anxiety. We wanted to find studies that looked at acupuncture as a treatment alongside IVF and that they also asked people how anxious they were. We found eight studies that did that. There were about 2,200 patients that were involved in the cohort.
When we did the meta-analysis, we found that over 1,700 study participants did actually fill out one of those anxiety questionnaires. Then we found that acupuncture provided benefits to these patients suffering with IVF related anxiety. Ultimately, the benefit was small, but it was clinically relevant.
Now, I do want to say, because I am a researcher and I believe in being able to be as open as possible, I think that over time this research outcome is going to change. I think as more research is done, we’re going to see a different result.
But here’s what we do know. Based on the mechanism research, we know that folks are going to have a release in endorphins, which is going to help them feel more relaxed. We know that if they do more treatment, more neurotransmitters will be released, so potentially that could also impact baseline anxiety.
The other thing I will say is that in this study we looked at trait versus state. State anxiety was the thing we looked at. State anxiety is where you have anxiety in response to a stressor, which makes perfect sense. There’s lots of places in IVF where, “Am I going to have enough eggs?” One of the first questions folks have the moment they come out of the anesthesia with the egg retrieval is, “How many eggs did we get?” There are many places in the process. “Am I pregnant? Am I going to stay pregnant?” We really are thinking about ways to help support patients to be more even and regulated throughout the whole process.
To contrast with trait anxiety, that’s really anxiety where your baseline operating system, if you will, is at a slightly higher, more anxious level. That’s always also a challenge. Part of what we’re doing is trying to also down-regulate one’s nervous system so they don’t feel so dialed up, if you will.
Dr. Aimee: How do you think anxiety can complicate fertility treatment?
Dr. Lee: I think that this is a really important question. My former colleague at UCSF, Dr. Lauri Pasch, found that anxiety and depression were highly prevalent in those seeing fertility care. You might already be familiar with this study, but half of women and one-third of men were clinically depressed, and three-quarters of women and two-thirds of men were clinically anxious, so this is clearly very prevalent.
This can be so much so, and to answer your question, the level of distress can be so much that folks don’t want to continue treatment. This is before they’re actually able to reach their goal of getting pregnant and having a child. So, one of the things I’m thinking about is how can I help someone be resilient, how can I help them continue through treatment so that they can reach their goals.
Dr. Aimee: Is there a way that you approach your acupuncture treatments if, let’s say, you’re dealing with anxiety related to being a fertility patient compared to someone who doesn’t have that anxiety and is doing IVF?
Dr. Lee: We’re not going to have to change it too much because what we know from the mechanisms is that you’re getting multiple responses based on acupuncture. We are tailoring treatment to the individual, so I might add a couple of extra points specifically that we know for sure calm the spirit. There’s this one right here that everyone loves, it’s a very sedating calming point.
In general, when we’re doing acupuncture, even to support fertility, you’re going to have that added benefit to reduce anxiety. This is one of the resources patients can consider to support themselves throughout their cycles. As providers, we always want to provide folks with as many resources as feasible for them to help dial down their nervous system so they feel like they can keep going.
Dr. Aimee: I have patients who call me and say, “My period is due. I want to do IVF tomorrow.” I’m like let’s do it, and I give them my IVF essentials. Now I feel like I need to add fertility acupuncture for everyone.
I talk to everyone about it because I know that it definitely reduces anxiety. I think it helps reduce some of the side effects of being an IVF patient, like nausea and bloating. The patients who do acupuncture actually recover better even after their egg retrieval. Then their experience in the first trimester is actually much better, less fatigue, less depression, less anxiety, and less nausea as well.
So, I am a huge fan of acupuncture, but not everyone has so much time. What specifics should be considered in terms of how this is timed during an IVF cycle that you think make the outcomes better?
Dr. Lee: That’s a great question. Ideally, of course, we would love to see someone three months before they even start a cycle. But, like you said, that’s not always reasonable or even possible.
I think what we know based on the data right now is that if you can start down regulation when you’re doing suppression, when you’re taking the things like Lupron or you’re taking your birth control pill before you start the cycle, if you can start acupuncture at a minimum there and keep going through your retrieval, through the transfer, and your acupuncturist will be able to tell you what you need, that will likely be the most beneficial dose of acupuncture.
That’s something we don’t have a 100% slam dunk answer for. We don’t know exactly how many sessions are going to be the magic number that makes everyone have a perfect outcome. I don’t think anybody will ever know that, and that’s just the way it’s going to have to be. What I will say is that if you can start at that time of down regulation or when you start your birth control pill or Lupron, that would be ideal.
Dr. Aimee: There was a clinic back in the day when I was in medical school where the acupuncturists were also the anesthesiologists.
Dr. Lee: Yes.
Dr. Aimee: They would place needles even before we went in for the egg retrieval also, which I thought was cool. What do you think about that?
Dr. Lee: I think that’s very cool. Some of the studies that were included in our analysis were specifically acupuncture at the time of egg retrieval. I haven’t done the pre-egg-retrieval. I’ve always done post, like in recovery, acupuncture for when you’re coming out and you’re feeling uncomfortable. It’s great for the pain and, as you were saying, the nausea which can sometimes happen with anesthesia.
I’m excited to see all of the ways that we can go, but I also want to be mindful that not everybody is going to be able to add this in at all places.
Dr. Aimee: Right. Also, there are so many barriers now in terms of people being able to come in. I wish that I could have my acupuncturists back at the clinic. I’m hoping and praying that it will happen soon. I’m sure in other areas of the country it’s happening. Not quite yet here in the San Francisco Bay area.
Are there any other findings about your research on acupuncture that you would like to share with us?
Dr. Lee: I’m excited to share that I contributed to an abstract that was accepted at this year’s ASRM meeting, The American Society for Reproductive Medicine. We looked at individualized acupuncture on the day of embryo transfer for frozen embryo transfers. This is an area of research where we don’t have a lot of evidence just yet. This was with my colleagues in the Chicago area, Dr. Roohi Jeelani and the acupuncturists Dr. Kate Phillippi and Dr. Lamya Kamel. They’re really great. They’ve been working together for years, and they reached out and asked me to help, so I was like absolutely. I’m very excited to share that with you after the meeting when it’s been published.
The other area that I think I would love for us to see more work is in the ways that we can help patients with anxiety and with depression alongside these treatments.
Dr. Aimee: You’ll have to come back on and share with us your research findings about frozen embryo transfers and acupuncture. We’re definitely going to have you back very soon, later in the Fall.
I imagine with what you do for work that you go out to dinner parties and people are talking, and then they have these ideas about what you do. What do you wish people knew about acupuncture?
Dr. Lee: I think the main thing is that I want people to know it’s safe. It’s a safe drug-free treatment. While it was developed thousands of years ago in China, and Chinese medicine is under this umbrella term of East Asian medicine, and that includes Japanese acupuncture and Korean acupuncture, what I practice mostly is Chinese medicine acupuncture.
The other thing that I want us all to know is that licensed acupuncturists have at least three years of training, graduate level training, that they have to pass board exams in order to be licensed, and that the most safe acupuncture has been performed by folks who are licensed. There is very little data on negative outcomes when you’re working with a licensed acupuncturist.
The other thing that is important to know is that this is a deceptively simple looking therapy, it seems like how could that possibly be doing all of the things that it is, but this information that we’re learning about mechanisms really does imply or suggest that we’re working on multiple levels, it’s not just relaxation. I think that is an important thing for us to be considering when we’re talking about acupuncture.
Dr. Aimee: Do you think that there are some people who get more benefit from it than others? For example, I’ll just run a scenario through with you here. The patient who comes out of acupuncture feeling so good and so relaxed, versus the patient that’s maybe still a little bit tense and just stays there because she’s just still needle-phobic a little bit and just can’t get over that. What do you think about that scenario?
Dr. Lee: There’s this idea in research about responders versus non-responders. You are going to occasionally have non-responders. I think it’s important that we don’t force people to do a treatment that they don’t like.
When I’m working with patients and I can see… Again, you’re going to have your patients who are like, “Oh my gosh, this is the most amazing thing. I never want to leave.” I get that every day. But for the person that I really clearly see is not relaxing, that is not really feeling more calm at the end of the therapy, I will have a frank conversation, “Do you find this is beneficial? If it isn’t, let’s think about other ways we can support you that feel more supportive and that are helping you to relax.”
Mindfulness based stress reduction is helpful for some folks, but not everybody. Yoga is great for some folks, but it’s not great for everybody. Same thing with acupuncture. It’s great for a lot of folks, but it’s not perfect for everyone.
Dr. Aimee: Thank you. I’m glad to hear you say that because I think people who are listening who feel shamed for not going back, they have that guilt like “it didn’t work because I couldn’t power through the acupuncture.” Sometimes it’s a matter of finding another acupuncturist as well. Maybe it’s just not the right fit. If you feel like it’s not the right fit, maybe get one more opinion and see what you think.
What about doctors? I also have doctors that listen to my interviews, and there might be some listening out there. If doctors aren’t aware of how acupuncture can help their patients, what would you like to share with them about it?
Dr. Lee: I think a lot of doctors, like you, are already seeing how acupuncture is helping their patients. Surveys do suggest that up to 50% of patients are already adding acupuncture to their IVF cycles.
I also think, working alongside physicians and advanced practice providers for so many years, that it is very difficult to make a strong recommendation when the data is not a slam dunk, and I get that. But I will say I fear we may be rejecting a safe and effective therapy because it’s so difficult to study. I would just ask you to reach out and get more information before you say definitively this does not help. There is good data to suggest there is benefit. There are also limitations to the data, and as a researcher, I recognize that. I think also in-clinic I see that many people benefit and there are some people that it’s not right for, and that’s okay.
I am always happy to get into the weeds, if we want to talk about data and numbers, which we haven’t really talked about here because it doesn’t really seem appropriate. Feel free to reach out. I’m happy to dive in. Let’s talk about where the strengths are and where the weaknesses are. I’m happy to provide any of the papers that I’ve referenced today.
Finally, I would just say that I’m a partner, I’m here to help the patient and you help the patient get to their goals. I really want to be part of the extended team and I’m willing to be part of the team.
Dr. Aimee: I often tell my patients, “Have your acupuncturist email me. I’ll share the calendar and we’ll be on the same page. If they want to know the follicle sizes and linings, we’ll share the ultrasound images with them. Let’s all be collaborative.” Like you said, we’re all on the same team to help the patient.
Where can people find you if they want to get in touch?
Dr. Lee: I have a website at RosefinchHealth.com. I’m also on Instagram @RosefinchHealth. One can reach me through either of those methods.
Dr. Aimee: Fabulous. I want all of those articles. We’ll hyperlink them in the article that’s going to go with our interview today for people who are interested in reading more. I know my patients love the research. Thank you for doing such a fabulous job sharing all of the research about acupuncture and IVF outcomes. Thank you, Lee, for coming on today’s show.
Dr. Lee: Thanks so much. I really appreciate it.
