- What red light therapy is and how it works for pelvic health
- The development and features of the Fringe Pelvic Wand
- Scientific evidence and patient testimonials on red light therapy
- How red light and blue light can help with tissue healing, inflammation, and infections
- Practical advice on using the wand and wraps, including frequency, cleaning, and comfort
- The role of pelvic floor physiotherapy and why it matters for reproductive health
- How red light therapy may support fertility treatments and even benefit men
- Fringe Heals website: https://fringeheals.com – use code eggwhisperer
- Blog and research links on the Fringe site
- Instagram: https://instagram.com/fringe heels
- Contact: [email protected]
- Proximal Priority Theory on National Library of Medicine (Dr. Oshiro)
Full Transcript:
Dr. Aimee: I’m so excited about today’s episode titled Red Light Therapy for Female Pelvic Health and Fertility. You’re probably thinking, “What is that?” We’re talking with Liz Frey, pelvic health medical director at Fringe about how red light can support your reproductive system and overall pelvic health. Fringe is a company bridging traditional healing practices with modern science. She focuses on red light therapy designed to help women optimize their health.
Liz, welcome.
Liz Frey: Thanks so much for having me, Dr. Aimee.
Dr. Aimee: I’m so glad that you’re here. What you’re doing is teaching us something that a lot of patients just don’t know about. What I’d love to hear from you first is how you became interested in red light therapy and female pelvic health. I think you have something special to show us that’s pretty new out there for people to learn about.
Liz Frey: I am a pelvic health physio. I became a pelvic health physiotherapist a little over a decade ago when after having my first and becoming pregnant with my second child, I realized that I had pelvic health issues myself. After seeking help and recovering with a pelvic health physiotherapist, that’s when I thought I need to dive into this field, I need to help other women. I’ve practiced pelvic health for over a decade.
Only in the last couple of years have I integrated light therapy with my practice. That is because Alyson Evans, the cofounder of Fringe, approached me. We were friends and had previously worked together, but she approached me like, “I have this awesome idea, and we need to bring it to market.” It is the Fringe pelvic wand. It offers red light and near-infrared light therapy for intervaginal tissue healing. For the last year and a half, almost two years now, Alyson and I and the team at Fringe have worked together to bring light therapy healing for women for their pelvises.
Dr. Aimee: I want you to tell me how it works. I actually have a patient that just bought one. A lot of doctors who might hear their patients start using this in the near future, they’ll question the science, “How do you know this works? What is the evidence, what papers have you published?”
Liz Frey: For sure. First, I’ll talk about how it works. The light therapy wand has red light and near-infrared light in it. Most products that you would see on the market when they talk about light therapy, they will have those two wavelengths of light in them. Then it also has a blue light function. I’ll just chat about blue light for one second. That is to help with the vaginal microbiome, it’s antifungal and antibacterial. If women suffer from bacterial vaginosis, ongoing yeast infections, that kind of thing, then the blue light can be very helpful. The red and near-infrared light therapy is used for tissue healing, tissue regeneration, helping build a lasting collagen production, reducing inflammation in the tissues, my list could go on.
The science behind it is quite clear in that we have worked with lasers for years. Laser therapy for pelvic health is not new by any stretch. Around 2018, there were a number of published research articles that showed that what we had previously been doing with laser therapy can be reproduced with LED light. That’s why we’re seeing a lot of different products like face masks, wraps, panels, etcetera, on the market, because they can use LED light therapy, which is safer for the consumer and at a price point that is actually digestible for the consumer. That’s why we’re seeing it now in the marketplace, whereas we hadn’t before, but the actual science behind it isn’t new.
Just a little bit of the science is when our cells absorb light from sunlight, from laser light, from LED light, it doesn’t matter what the source is, as long as the wavelength of light is correct or optimal. Our cells will absorb light, and the mitochondria, which are the little energy houses in our cells, for those that like to nerd out at a cellular level with me here. A whole cascade of reactions will occur.
One of the byproducts of these reactions is nitric oxide, and as we know, nitric oxide is a huge vasodilator. What will happen is in the tissues that are receiving the light, we’ll have vasodilation, increased blood flow, increased circulation, and that brings oxygen and nutrients to our tissue for healing and for general tissue health, and so on. The second byproduct is ATP, which is energy. Our cells that are receiving and absorbing this light will have an increase in energy production. That could be for tissue healing, tissue health, muscle building, strength, etcetera. Those are two byproducts.
Other things that are happening at a cellular level are an increase in elastin and collagen production, which helps with the integrity and the elasticity of our tissues. For women that have maybe some atrophy, some prolapse, different conditions where they’d like to strengthen their muscles, then that can be very helpful. Then also a reduction of inflammation. Women that suffer from endometriosis, PCOS, any inflammatory condition, light therapy can be helpful for that.
Dr. Aimee: What I’m wondering is have you had patients use it and then feel much better? Tell me some of those stories. Someone who was suffering from BV and recurrent vaginitis, did they experience relief after using the blue light? Then women who have endometriosis, do they experience less pain with their periods?
Liz Frey: For sure. As far as the blue light therapy testimonials and feedback that we’ve gotten from the wand, honestly, has been shocking. It’s been so much greater than what I even anticipated. Actually, just recently, a woman wrote in and said something along the lines of you may laugh at the idea of a pelvic wand, because it does look like a lightsaber. We’ve gotten lots of fun and funny comments about it. She said, “You may laugh about it, but I’ve had chronic yeast infections, nothing seems to touch it, resistant to a lot of the antibiotics. A week of using the light therapy wand has done more benefit than any of the treatments in the past.” Something like that is awesome, that’s really a feel-good. That’s why we have the wand and that’s why we are wanting to help women with it.
As far as postpartum, we’ve had a number of testimonials as well that have come in for wound healing, women that have either an episiotomy or tearing trauma with their birth, and when they have used it externally initially – you can use it externally along the vulva area prior to being able to use it internally – they’ve reported that their wounds have healed quickly and that has been a main part of their healing process postpartum.
Then we’ve had so many menopausal women with tissue dryness, tissue fragility, painful intercourse associated with that. Because of the increase in blood flow associated with the red light therapy, there’s more lubrication and that helps them with intercourse.
All different women with really different issues and fantastic results.
Dr. Aimee: As I look at that, I’m thinking of a vibrator. I know you’re not intending it to be used as such, but there is a vibration setting on the wand as well, is there not?
Liz Frey: There absolutely is. We have tried to stack or pair different modalities within the wand to have it optimize tissue health. Vibration is a tool that physios have used for years, when you think about it, to increase blood flow, to have tissue relaxation, or even to help your brain connect with a muscle that may have been damaged or might not be working optimally.
What we did was we built four different levels of vibration into the wand, so it goes from a really gentle level of vibration for those that have a lot of hypertonicity or tissue tension, to people that are suffering from painful intercourse who have a lot of sensitivity in the area. Low-level vibration to help relax the pelvic floor muscles to the fourth level of vibration, which is by no means strong, but it is definitely present, where your brain will be able to connect and identify the pelvic floor muscles that much more easily. If you put the vibration level on with the red light therapy, and even pair that with strengthening exercises for the pelvic floor, you’re going to have stacked therapy for optimal results.
Dr. Aimee: How often should someone be using it? Let’s say if they’re dealing with recurrent bacterial vaginosis versus endometriosis related pain.
Liz Frey: We generally say three to five times a week is optimal. Not more than once in a 24-hour period. Too much of a good thing is not a bad thing, but you’re going to have diminishing returns. Once every 24 hours or three to five times a week is ideal or optimal.
In my practice, if somebody is starting out and they have a fairly severe condition, maybe incontinence, or they have infections or what have you, I always say let’s start off and gain some momentum. Use it more like five times a week versus the three. There’s a 10-minute timer on it, so that helps take out any of the guesswork. I’d say use it five times a week for 10 minutes and stack it with the other therapy that your practitioner may have already prescribed for you. Then as your symptoms get under control, maybe your incontinence is reduced, you’re able to identify the pelvic floor muscles, or your infection has cleared, then you can use it more as a maintenance home device. I’d definitely suggest the three to five times a week just to get some momentum with whatever the condition is that you’re dealing with.
Dr. Aimee: Should people use lube with it? And then how do they clean it?
Liz Frey: Great questions. Yes, you need to use a water-based lubricant with it. That’s because all of the shaft of it is medical-grade silicone. You don’t want to use an oil-based lubricant because it could react or break down the silicone over time, so water-based lubricants.
Then for washing it, just soap and water. It is waterproof, so you don’t need to worry about having the handle part get wet or anything like that. Soap and warm water.
Dr. Aimee: Before I knew about the wand, I talked a lot to a lot of patients about getting a belt and using that, but I’m also curious about the wand. Maybe we’ll do a small clinical trial, so to speak, in my practice, because I think that in some patients the belt can actually improve the lining of the uterus and help with egg quality. With the wand being closer to the uterus, I’m very curious to see if it will improve the linings of patients who have a thin uterine lining and are trying to get to transfer. To say I’m excited is an understatement. I know it’s silly to say you’re excited about a wand, but I am very excited about this wand.
For patients who are not comfortable with a wand, because some patients don’t want to do something like that and, no matter what, they just won’t, they won’t use tampons, they just use pads, and intercourse is very uncomfortable for them, so the thought of the wand is not something that they’ll use. What other options do they have?
Liz Frey: The product that we recommend for women that aren’t comfortable using a wand, just aren’t there yet or just won’t be there period, is we have wraps, as you mentioned. It has LED chips in it. We recommend the wrap for women that aren’t comfortable with the wand, or women that, for example, would like or benefit from having a wrap over their abdominal area or their lower back. Exactly what you said, it can help with increasing blood flow to all of the pelvic organs and tissues. As you mentioned, that may help increase fertility, reduce inflammation or pain, and help with scar mobility. Honestly, there’s a really long list.
I find the women that have commented the most with the wrap or the wrap-wand combo are living with endometriosis. We have a number of beautiful testimonials from women that have said it has been a game-changer for them.
Dr. Aimee: That’s so satisfying, I’m sure, for you guys as a company, knowing that what you’re doing is so impactful. I can only imagine.
I bet if I took five people in a room and I said, “What is a pelvic floor specialist, what is a pelvic health expert,” they probably wouldn’t know what that is, what that means, and why it’s so important. Can you break down why it’s so important to pay attention to your pelvic health and what that means to see someone with your expertise?
Liz Frey: It’s interesting you say that. I’ll have women come into my practice because their GP has recommended they come to pelvic floor therapy physio. When I describe what it is, they say, “Oh, I didn’t realize that.” So, that’s a really fair question.
Pelvic health physiotherapy is a specialty of physiotherapists who are rostered to be able to do internal work. Of course, I start externally with women, with their posture and their breathing, and really trying to optimize their pelvic position and so on, giving them education for that. Then 95% of the time, we also do internal work. I will be able to actually touch the internal muscles and get a sense of whether or not the muscles in the vagina are restricted and tight and maybe causing someone’s pain or irritation, or are they actually fairly lax and it’s very hard for the woman to develop tension or to contract the muscles.
A lot of the therapy that I provide would be optimizing the muscle function in the pelvis for whatever the condition might be, but second to that, we also work on scar tissue, scar mobility, and that could be in the lower abdominal area if someone has had abdominal surgery or if they’ve had increased blood flow to that area via manual therapy, scar tissue work, and so on. If we step back, if we have better blood flow, better tissue mobility, then the reproductive organs are going to be “happy,” but then they’re going to be able to move, they’re going to be able to flow and have optimal position, even for someone who is trying to conceive.
Dr. Aimee: You touched on breathing for a second there. How is that related to the pelvic floor?
Liz Frey: When I think about the pelvic floor or the pelvic bowl, all of the muscles that are inside the pelvis, I immediately think to start by looking at our diaphragm. That might seem weird, but our diaphragm is also a dome shape that sits on top of the pelvic floor with all of the organs in between. If we aren’t using our diaphragm, which is our primary muscle for breathing, for respiration, if we’re tight and we’re stressed and we’re breathing all up through our shoulders, then we don’t have a nice up and down trampoline flow to our breathing and our pelvic floor, which mirrors our diaphragm, is also not going to have a great flow.
What I do with women when they come in is start by saying here we are, we have our diaphragm, which is around the lower ribcage, and I work with women on learning how to optimize their breathing so that they’re not all up in their shoulders, which so many of us are with our busy lifestyles and stress.
Working with women and teaching them how to use their diaphragm for breathing, I’ll have them put their hands on their ribs and expand and breathe into their ribcage. The analogy I use is to imagine your lower ribcage are like the wings of a bird that have to come out and then come back in, regulating their breathing pattern. Then I’ll have women imagine their pelvic floor, also having that same opening and then passively retracting, opening and retracting. We tap into a woman’s parasympathetic system, their down-regulation, their calming and relaxing system through their breath to optimize the flow of their pelvic floor and their diaphragm together.
Dr. Aimee: That’s incredible. I think you’re right. Even while you were talking, I noticed that I was breathing up in my shoulders, and then I was doing some deep diaphragmatic breathing. It’s also very relaxing, too. How can red light therapy compliment fertility treatments like IVF or even egg freezing?
Liz Frey: When I think about a woman that’s coming to my practice who is looking to optimize fertility, I think about down-regulating their nervous system.
There’s a neat red light therapy protocol that’s really interesting. It was developed by a Japanese doctor, Dr. Oshiro back in 2012-ish, called the proximal priority technique. He uses light therapy actually up into the anterior neck region proximally to increase blood flow into the brain, and that’s into the anterior and posterior pituitary, into the hypothalamus, etcetera, and increasing that parasympathetic system relaxation via using blood flow into the brain. You’ll put red light therapy onto the neck, you’ll see, and this has been shown with more recent research, a complete warming, increased blood flow into the whole torso area.
It’s a central application for more of a distal application, so it’s really neat when you’re looking at fertility and having calming relaxation and increase in circulation blood flow into the brain, which is kind of our powerhouse, that’s kind of our center, and then applying light therapy by way of a wand, a wrap, or what have you, down into the actual pelvic region. My recommendation for using the proximal priority technique as a basis would be to start centrally and then move peripherally, and also to use light therapy in the leadup, at the beginning of your cycle, prior to ovulation, to optimize potential conception or egg retrieval. If someone doesn’t actually conceive in that cycle, to take a little bit of a break and then start again on day one using light therapy again.
Dr. Aimee: Do you tell your clients not to use it after ovulation, or is it okay to still use it after ovulation?
Liz Frey: To be honest, there’s no evidence to show that it would be negative. Personally, if it were me, I’d be using it, just keep it going. The research has shown that it would be best to start light therapy three months in advance of an egg retrieval or what have you, because that follows the course of egg development.
There’s nothing harmful. I do note that a few of the women I’ve seen say they’re just going to take a break for that week, and then they’ll get back to it.
Dr. Aimee: That makes perfect sense. Thank you for all that information, especially the neck placement. I’ve always wondered. I have patients that place it on their neck and their abdomen, they do it twice a day with their wrap. I didn’t understand why the neck would help, so that explanation was perfect. Are the studies called thermographic studies, the heat studies?
Liz Frey: Yes.
Dr. Aimee: They’re quite impressive.
Liz Frey: It’s really neat to see those that have had light therapy in such a central location, like the neck, where we know we have a lot of large arterial flow. It is really neat to see how that flushes down through the whole torso and has a distal effect when it’s proximally placed.
Dr. Aimee: I want to talk about guys for a second, because red light therapy can potentially even improve testosterone levels. I tell guys to maybe put it on their arm or put it on their neck. Do you have recommendations for men?
Liz Frey: Yes. We do have men that have been using the wrap that I showed you around the whole genital area to improve sperm mobility, sperm quality, etcetera. The research there is pretty compelling.
Dr. Aimee: I agree. Does your wrap transmit heat, though? That’s the one thing I worry about is heat, so I tell guys not to wrap it around their genitals.
Liz Frey: The wrap will have a gentle warming effect from the near-infrared light, but it is certainly not a wicked thermal effect that would be damaging to the sperm. That’s what the research is showing. You’re not going to tightly wrap. It’s more just placed.
Dr. Aimee: That makes sense.
Liz Frey: That’s not why the wrap was designed, so I’ll say this is like an off-label use that we’ve been hearing feedback on. I’m not commenting on the research with our wrap in particular, but more the feedback that we’ve received from men for off-label use.
Dr. Aimee: Right. How can listeners connect with you or learn more about Fringe Heals and the tools that you offer?
Liz Frey: Our website is FringeHeals.com. There’s a whole blog section that has been written by our scientific director, Genevieve, and it has lots of different links to the research that we’ve used when we’re designing our products. All of the products are backed by research, so you can read a lot more about light therapy, not just for the pelvis but in general, from our website blogs. You can follow us on Instagram @FringeHeals. If anyone has actual questions, we have amazing customer support they can email at [email protected]. I’ll get most of those questions directed to me, and then I’ll respond. Feel free to DM us, to email us, and just to check out the website.
Dr. Aimee: That’s great. How long does it take to get a wand?
Liz Frey: They ship in two to three days.
Dr. Aimee: Is there anything else that you want to add today?
Liz Frey: I think the only thing that we didn’t necessarily touch on is the actual size. I was describing how it’s medical-grade silicone, it has a vibration, it has red and near-infrared light therapy, the blue light therapy, but the size of it… We have consulted with a number of pelvic health physios when we were designing the wand. You’ll see it has a gentle curve to it. The circumference of it is really quite small. If we look at the size of my thumb and the size of the circumference of the wand, it’s designed to be very comfortable and manageable. It’s not meant to be intimidating, even for women that have pelvic pain and dysfunction.
Dr. Aimee: I think what you guys have invented is incredible and a game-changer. I am just so excited to introduce it to my practice. I’m very curious to see if it will help with the lining of the uterus, too. That’s what I’m most excited about for patients who have a thin lining.
Liz Frey: Amazing. Thanks so much for having me, Dr. Aimee.
Dr. Aimee: Of course. Thank you for joining us, Liz, and thank you so much for sharing your expertise today.
For everyone listening, links to everything we discussed will be in the show notes. Don’t forget to subscribe to The Egg Whisperer Show on YouTube and Spotify, keep shining, stay hopeful, and remember, every step in your fertility journey is a spark toward your dream of parenthood.
